A YouTube star’s reflections on burnout, boundaries, and changing directions

In the first episode of Digital Spaghetti, Elle Mills dives into her journey from teen YouTube star to filmmaker, and how she's grappled with the impact of turning her life into videos for public consumption. Having contended with burnout at age 19, Elle discusses how she has navigated anxiety and mental health struggles — and figured out what's truly important to her as a creator. As she says, "I don't want my life to be a product any more."

Transcript:

Elle Mills:
I feel like that's kind of the scary game with YouTube. YouTube is you. You are your content.

Song:
And I would answer all your wishes.

Jack Conte:
At some point in there, you hit a million subscribers. In many ways, your dreams were coming true.

Elle Mills:
Yeah. But I felt like I couldn't enjoy it. I feel like every good thing that came increased the anxiety of like, "Oh, this is all gonna go away." And I had this really big public breakdown. I didn't think I was gonna leave YouTube until the last day we shot "Reply."

Girl 1 :
Are you open to that?

Girl 2:
To new friends?

Girl 1:
To new possibilities?

TV voiceover:
Over the course of one year, Elle Mills reached over a million YouTube subscribers, and was named Breakout YouTuber of the 2018 Shorty Awards.

Philippina Canadian YouTube star Elle Mills for the 10th annual Shorty Awards.

TV voiceover:
From the very beginning, Elle had an approach to storytelling that was fun, ingeniously crafted, and super inspiring. But her rise to fame turned out to be really hard on her personally, and later that year, Elle burnt out at the age of 19 and made a video about it.

Elle Mills in an excerpt from a video:
Why the fuck am I so un-fucking unhappy?

Jack Conte:
Now, Elle has announced that she's taken a break from YouTube to pursue a directing career. I'm sitting down with Elle to talk about that decision, and why she's tired of making herself the product. Elle!

Elle Mills:
Hello!

Jack Conte:
Welcome!

Elle Mills:
Thank you.

Jack Conte:
So psyched to have you here.

Elle Mills:
Thank you for having me.

Jack Conte:
So a little while ago, you wrote an op-ed piece for the New York Times. You wrote, "But another part of our culture is to make yourself into a product and figure out how to sell that product. Success is measured in views and subscriber counts visible to all. The numbers feel like an adrenaline shot to your self-esteem. The validation is an addicting high, but its lows hit just as hard."

Elle Mills:
Yeah. No, yeah. I feel like that's kinda the scary game with YouTube. Because, I think what I realized, you know, in hindsight, like, when really reflecting on my YouTube career, because I was the product, I feel like that's why my career felt so anxiety-inducing, 'cause it felt so attached to my self-worth. And like, as much as like, a video doing well is so great, and I feel like I talk to my YouTube pals about this all the time—it's such an addicting high. Like, you really feel like you're on the top of the world. But then comes the opposite of it. If a video doesn't do well, it really — I can't describe it. It's like, it just ruins the entire day. Maybe the week. I don't know. It's a weird thing, and I think it took me a while to understand why. I mean it's, I've been thinking about like, how it could change. I don't know. I just feel like it's kinda the system, isn't it? You know? Like, YouTube is you. You are your content. So how can you not take it personally when it doesn't do well?

Jack Conte:
Humans are humans.

Elle Mills:
Yep.

Jack Conte:
Not content.

Elle Mills:
Mhmm.

Jack Conte:
And ... we commingle those two things when we put ourselves out there like that. I …

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
Know the feeling. Yeah.

Elle Mills:
Well, just a little back story. 'Cause I definitely worked with an editor to get it to the point where it is. So yeah, I made my last video, which was like a short film called What Happened To Elle Mills? And I think in it, I said, "I don't want my life to be the product anymore." And Anna Marx, who's The New York Times editor who worked on it with me, reached out and she was like, "I really like that piece, and I think we can write an essay kind of about that."

And so like, I guess like, working on it back and forth for two months, I was like really reflecting on my YouTube experiences. Like what is it that I've learned from this? And like, I had like, over the past like, year or two of like, taking a step back from YouTube, realize like, things like ... Like, I don't know, there's a guilt I feel about like, some of the videos I've made. Just because I feel like ... I mentioned this in the piece. Like I took, I feel like I took advantage of people's longings to be seen, you know?

And I feel like there were ... Like there's certain videos where I'm like, "I can't believe these people allowed me to do this and film this and post it online." But I also get it, 'cause I'm like, I look at the lengths I've gone through for some of the videos I've made, and I'm like, "What was that?" Like, that pushed me to like, be so vulnerable or ... But like, so it was like, little things like that.

'Cause I ... I've always said, I'm like, "Oh, if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would." And so I'm like, why? And I think it's because I do feel like YouTube has so much to offer, and there's so much good that can come from it. And it allowed me to grow as a filmmaker, and without it, I wouldn't have the resources and the audience who would want to hear my stories. And it wouldn't have gave me the confidence to become a filmmaker. And so I think, the pieces like, talking about the boundaries that perhaps should be set ... That I wish I would've set for myself, for the future generation coming up. Because I do believe, yeah, you can grow a lot, and there's, it's a beautiful place to share your art and yourself. I think the biggest thing I learned from my YouTube experience is that not everyone deserves your vulnerability. And so just to remind people that.

Jack Conte:
Do you feel like you're ... You mentioned, you know, "I don't wanna be the product anymore." Is that period of your life over?

Elle Mills:
Yeah, I feel ... Even in like my personal life, I feel a lot more introverted, and I feel maybe just conscious of where I share my energy, and so I think that translates to my career as well. I think my mental health has been so much better, and I feel that anxiety and dread I felt my entire YouTube career has ... Well, I'm obviously still an anxious person, but it's just not as intense as it was when I was the product, and when I was in front of the camera, and when my life was open for criticism, you know?

Jack Conte:
Let's rewind and talk about how you got to that point. It was kind of an astoundingly quick rise.

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
You started uploading videos when?

Elle Mills:
I mean I started like, like middle school and high school, it was, but I'd say like, right when I graduated high school, was when I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna like, stick to the schedule, upload weekly, and actually try to make this a full-time thing."

Jack Conte:
And then, was there one particular moment where things really popped and you felt like it started working?

Elle Mills:
I feel like I had little mini peaks, you know? Like I feel like the first was like, I did like, editing trailers, like genre swap trailers. And so that gave me like my first 10,000. And then it kinda then went stagnant for a while and then I decided, okay, I need to change things up. And then I wanted to be in front of the camera. So I did comedy videos, and I felt like those really kicked off. And then it got stagnant. But more creatively, I felt. And so, then I kind of landed on the hybrid between the two, which was, I think what I ended off on, which is like those teen movie style YouTube videos.

Jack Conte:
Yeah. Like Ferris Bueller had a YouTube channel.

Elle Mills:
Exactly. Right. Which I'd say the biggest jump was my coming out video. For that.

Jack Conte:
Right. And, at some point in there, like within a year or two, you hit a million subscribers, you were getting millions of views per video. Like, I mean, in many ways your dreams were coming true.

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
Did it feel like that?

Elle Mills:
It did, but it was ... I felt like I couldn't enjoy it. And I only realized that in hindsight, 'cause I was like, these people that I looked up to for so many years are, you know, reaching out, and people actually wanna watch my stuff, and people not only wanna watch my stuff but they really love my storytelling. Which was always the dream. But it's hard, 'cause I feel like also, my memory from that time is really blurred. Just 'cause I feel like the anxiety was so intense and high that like, my memory kind of like, was really bad from that, those few years. But yeah, I felt like I was just constantly focused on what's next and, I feel like every good thing that came just increased the pressure, and also increased the anxiety of like, "Oh, this is all gonna go away."

Jack Conte:
Is that kind of what it felt like as a, like making these, 'cause each video, what's interesting about your videos is, they're all kind of bespoke. Like, one is about coming out, one is about getting a tattoo, you know? With a Twitter handle on it. You know, the pressure of having to come up with a new, fresh, creative idea each time, feels like a lot.

Elle Mills:
No, it definitely was not enjoyable. I think also part of it, that made it even more like, anxiety-inducing was that it was all me. Like, I felt like, it really felt personal if a video didn't do well or didn't do as well as the last one. It felt like a really big hit to my self-esteem.

Jack Conte:
Was there a team at all helping you on any aspect of it?

Elle Mills:
I eventually got like ... Like a friend to help me out with like, the producing side of like, you know ... So on the creative side, no. But on the producing side, yes.

Jack Conte:
Got it. Just like logistics, setting things up. Planning, events.

Elle Mills:
Yeah. There would be like big stunts, like, I don't know, like a parade, like, so like organizing, like getting the flow, and all that stuff, you know?

Jack Conte:
And, how were you financing all of this? Like some of the stunts are pretty big, the videos. I mean, you didn't have million dollar budgets, but like, there was some budget involved. Like, how did you put it all together? Were you doing, do you have AdSense? Did you do brand deals?

Elle Mills:
No AdSense, 'cause I was using copyrighted music. But I did, mostly it was making income through brand deals, and I would ... Eventually, my manager got me a business manager to help me be better, because I would use most of the money to reinvest it back into the videos. And so I think that was also a stressor, just because I was like, putting so much work and effort but still like, kind of living paycheck to paycheck, oddly. Even though like, if you looked at the numbers, it didn't really make sense, but I used basically like ... I'd say 50% to 60% of each brand deal to, right back in the videos.

Jack Conte:
And then about a year into that, you know, maybe sometime in 2018 or something like that? You made the "Burnt out at 19" video.

Elle Mills:
Yes. Started getting panic attacks and it's starting to scare me. I'm literally just waiting for me to hit my breaking point. This is all I ever wanted! And why the fuck am I so unfucking unhappy? It doesn't make any fucking sense! You know what I mean? Because like, this is literally my fucking dream, and I'm fucking so unfucking happy! It doesn't make any fucking sense!

Jack Conte:
Like, where was your head when that video came out? What was the kind of instigator for wanting to talk to your audience about that? And, yeah, where did that come from?

Elle Mills:
Yeah, the buildup to that was, it was like a few months after my coming out video. And so everything was happening really fast and I was going to a lot of events. I did like a Full Screen tour.

Jack Conte:
Full Screen the MCN?

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
They booked a tour for you around the States?

Elle Mills:
Canada.

Jack Conte:
Canada. To meet fans?

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
Awesome. Okay. Did you like that?

Elle Mills:
I enjoyed, everyone was really nice, but I don't think it was, on top of like, doing the videos by myself, it wasn't great, I don't think. I think it, it definitely made things worse, I think. 'Cause I actually experienced my first panic attack on the tour, and I never experienced one of those before. And so it was really scary. And I was a teenager, so I don't think I was, you know, handling it very well, and I didn't really have a good relationship with my family. Like they, we love each other but we're not really good at communicating our feelings. And so I felt like, I think it was just all bottling in, and I would resort to drinking at that age. Especially 'cause there's so many events and it's, everything's so new and exciting, so you're just, I just felt like I was drinking a lot, and it all like, exploded and I had this really big public breakdown. Like, I think it was on Twitter. I forget. But it was like after one of those events and I just like, flipped, and I don't really remember it, I just remember like, having like, really, really bad panic attack.

And I think at that point, everyone in my family and my team was like, "Okay, we need to like, stop." And so I stopped only for like a couple of weeks. In hindsight I feel like I should have even took more time, but, I was very impulsive with even releasing "Burnt out at 19."...

I felt like, 'cause, I don't know. I feel like I released that not even a month after all that. And, I mean, I was very raw and honest and vulnerable in that. And even in it, I'm like, I don't know what the answer is. But yeah, so, I felt like, because of how public it was, I felt like I wanted to share. And also, YouTube has, up until then, had always been my, like therapy. It was my way of like, 'cause I feel like when I talk, I stumble over my words a lot. And so I've always felt, even to this day that, I better explain myself through video making.

Jack Conte:
And when you say it's your therapy, is it like your way of sorting out what's in your head and what you're feeling and what you're thinking? And so it's like, almost like your journal. Like we're literally watching your journal.

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
On video.

Elle Mills:
Yeah. It's a journal for me, but also, a way for me to help people, make people feel how I feel. I'm not really good with my words, but I can do it through video, music, and editing, and structure.

Jack Conte:
Is that intrinsic? Did you learn it? Did you study it? Like, where does it come from?

Elle Mills:
I'm self-taught on everything. I mean, I'm not the most amazing editor ever. I just feel like I kind of like, everything's like, like a rhythm? Like, the music and the editing cuts and just like, the shots so, it all comes hand in hand, so I feel like, as a kid, I definitely like, I've always been drawn to videos. And I feel like growing up it was definitely really accessible to kids my age. So I like, learned how to edit like in middle school. And made videos with my friends, and I think just like, throughout the years, just got better and better at it. And I was, it's basically the only thing I feel like I'm good at. Like, I don't really know, I'm not really, I'm not athletic. I mean, I could get by in school, but I'm not the smartest. But I do feel like that was the one thing that I enjoyed doing and felt like I wasn't the worst at, so, yeah.

Jack Conte:
So after you made "Burnt out at 19."

Elle Mills:
Mhmm.

Jack Conte:
That was, what? 2018? 2019?

Elle Mills:
2018.

Jack Conte:
2018.

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
After you made that, you kept uploading YouTube videos.

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
For like, four years!

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
Now, fewer and fewer videos.

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
Why did you keep going after that? 'Cause that definitely felt like, you know, if there's a chapter one and a chapter two of Elle Mills, chapter one is before "Burnt out at 19," chapter two is afterwards.

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
Yeah, why did you keep going, and how did you adjust your creation and your process so that you were kind of, you know, better set up at that point?

Elle Mills:
Yeah, I think at that point I, chapter two was less pressure on the upload schedule. Just kinda doing, whenever a brand deal came in. Brand deals were the one thing that was keeping me going. I mean, as much as like, I really enjoy making videos and that's like my only creative outlet, YouTube is also my livelihood, so, that's really what kept me going. Like I was like, I don't know what else. 'Cause it was very confusing the past few years, 'cause I'm like, making videos is my one passion. Like, that's the only thing I enjoy doing. So I just didn't understand. I'm like, what else could I do? And so I just kept doing it. I just felt like there was no other choice. Which sounds like, awful, because I actually am very passionate about everything I make. But yeah, that was definitely the one thing that just kept it going, and that's why I always like, for years I was like, "Damn, this is, I don't know, this is miserable." And I think the pandemic really, when everything stopped, that's when I was able to really sit with myself and think, I'm like, what is it I wanna do? Is just what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life, you know?

Jack Conte:
And your answer was no.

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
So you made this short film, "Reply." Let's watch a clip of it.

Song:
'Cause I know I did it to myself. I let it go to hell. And I will go. Try but I can't tell. There's just nobody else. You said all good things must end. Tell me they begin again. Duh duh duh duh duh. Duh duh duh duh.

Girl:
I almost didn't move here with my mom, you know. I didn't think there was anything here for me. Guess I was right…

Elle Mills:
There was like a magic on that set that I was, it was a life changing experience. I feel like working with a team changed things for me. Not being on camera relieved an anxiety that I didn't realize was there, I don't think. I think after I was like, okay, I need to be behind the camera. 'Cause I could still be creatively fulfilled. And yeah, I think from there, after I was, I felt this confidence in my directing, and writing skills that, for years, 'cause I always knew that I wanted to be a director, a writer director, but, because I was so insecure about my lack of knowledge of like, the technical side of things, like I'd never went to film school. Like, I know how to tell a story, but, you know, that side scared me so much. But, I luckily had such a great team around me, and everyone was so down to teach me that I felt like it really gave me that confidence to go full force into a directing career.

Jack Conte:
At the end of this process, you said on the last day of shooting, how many days was shooting, by the way?

Elle Mills:
Three.

Jack Conte:
Three days. So on the third day of shooting, you just like, got a feeling, that this was what you wanted to do more of. That was when? 2022?

Elle Mills:
'21.

Jack Conte:
2021. Tell me about that revelation. Like, what was that moment? Do you actually remember the moment, or was it just kind of the accumulation of the whole day and the feeling of the day and the shoot? What was going through your mind and what did you realize about what you wanted for yourself over the next couple years?

Elle Mills:
I just, the whole build-up to that was like, I don't know how this is gonna go. You know, this is my first time ever directing, and I felt like by the third day, the last day, I had this confidence to me, like I walked with confidence in comparison to the first day. I felt a confidence in my abilities that I had never experienced in my life. And I felt like it showed me a way of pursuing my passions that wasn't at the cost of my privacy, you know? And I didn't, I didn't feel that anxiety that I've felt for the past few years when creating stuff. I think it was like, the buildup of like, after, like, on the last day I was like, I cried. Like I was so just like ... I knew I was gonna miss the experience, and I thought I was gonna hate the filming part of it, 'cause I'm just so used to working alone. But that was my favorite part. There was just like, it was like the summer camp feeling to it. That I just like, immediately after I was like, "I wanna do this again." Like, I was like, I gotta work.

That's when I went straight into like, I gotta figure out a feature. I just wanted to go all in. And I think like, once like, Reply actually finished, and I was like at the end product, I think there was ... What I was scared and unsure if I was gonna be able to do, but I felt like there was a heart to my short film that I wanted it to have. And I felt like I executed it, and I felt like it was better than I imagined. And, I don't know, after that I just felt I had to shift gears and go in a different direction.

Jack Conte:
Rewinding to before Reply.

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
How did that film come about? Like, you're making YouTube videos, you already feel burned out, you're making fewer and fewer YouTube videos, the pandemic hits, you're wondering where you're going with your life, and then at some point, you plan a short film.

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
With like, a crew, and you shoot on film, and that's a giant leap!

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
Like, how did you get there? What, yeah, how did that happen?

Elle Mills:
Yes. So, when the pandemic hit, just 'cause I had so much time, I opened a Google Doc and wrote out a script, 'cause I was like, okay, I'm just gonna start from somewhere. And so, wrote out "Reply." It was completely, it was kind of the same idea but very different. I think I wrote, I transferred it to Final Draft, so put it in a screenplay format. And then I sent it, which is why I'm really grateful to YouTube, like, I met so many writers through YouTube, and so I sent it out to people for notes, and then I sat on it for a year.

I went back to YouTube. 'Cause there was just like, nothing was running at that time. But then a year later I was like, I think there's something here. I really wanna make this. And I was just gonna post it on my YouTube channel.

But I met Mikey Murphy through YouTube, who he also got, he went into writing, directing and producing. And he really like, took me under his wing and guided me through it. And he was like, he gave me the confidence, 'cause I had already restrictions. I'm like, "I don't know if we could shoot this on film. Like, but this is ..." He's like, "Don't worry about that." He's just like, "Whatever your creative vision is, I'm gonna help you make it come true." And so, that's why like, I was like, "Okay." He set me up with a DP who specializes in film. Like these are all things I would, originally, I was like, I don't know if I have the skillset to like, make this like my first thing. But again, like the team around me was amazing.

Jack Conte:
So, how did you kind of think about that risk? How, why, yeah. How were you willing to put so much into that?

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
What gave you that confidence?

Elle Mills:
I'm not the type of person you should ask business advice from, for sure. I've just always been like that. I'm very like ... impulsive. I'm the type of person that I'm like, I won't stop at nothing to make it happen. And to make the vision happen. And yeah, no, I definitely put myself in like, an uncomfortable position, but I wouldn't recommend that. But I really did believe in it. I don't know, I ... It reminded me of when I first started making YouTube videos. I remember I had this like, aha moment, 'cause I was in university and I was really unhappy. I was just like, every YouTuber that I admire has started from zero subscribers. I can do it. I believe in myself. I think if I put the work in, I can make this happen. And I had that moment again with directing and making this film. I was like, I don't know, I don't know. It's maybe delusion, but I, I really do believe in it, and so I put my all into it.

Jack Conte:
One thing I wanna dig into is shooting on film.And in particular, like, how did that change your process, your approach to storytelling and directing, versus shooting on digital video?

Elle Mills:
I feel like, well, with film we're really limited on takes, especially like on the low budget project. So we had like, one to two takes per scene. Which was honestly my preference, because I, I think gave a reason for everyone on the crew and the cast to like, really like, hone in and make sure like they're, everyone's prepared for when the cameras start rolling. But I think something I noticed about my directing is that I go into it knowing what I want, and that's how I kinda went into my YouTube videos. Like, when I was making the YouTube videos, I shoot with the edit in mind, and the cuts in mind. So, I kinda had that same mentality going into Reply. There's a different feeling on set when you're shooting on digital versus film. I feel like with digital you're like, okay, we can get, we have as many takes, but there's something like, like we got one shot at this, let's do it together. I really like that energy. Like, I don't know, the final product is ... I personally love film more than digital. But yeah, so I'm biased, but I think it looks ... There's just some, an extra spark to it.

Jack Conte:
I forgot who talks about it this way. Filmmakers who shoot like editors, and how that can be like a really great advantage for, for shooters and DPs, because if you've edited, you know how it's gonna like, wind up. And so it helps you to actually shoot it effectively and you know how much coverage to get, you know when not to get coverage. Did you get a lot of coverage on set or was it just like, whatever takes you got, were the ones that were gonna be in that section of the story?

Elle Mills:
Yes. Yeah yeah. We like, predicted the amount of film we would need and we got, we were right on the money with that, so, yeah.

Jack Conte:
And then you also mentioned being behind the camera as opposed to being in front of the camera, like, depressurized the situation for you and reduced your anxiety. What's that about? 'Cause like, on set, you know, you just said, like, you have a certain amount of film, like, you get a certain amount of takes.

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
Wasn't that a lot of pressure? Didn't you feel pressure? Or like, why was that kind of pressure different when you're behind the camera versus in front of it?

Elle Mills
I felt like with "Reply," I ... I had so much trust in the actors. Like, I wrote those parts with those actors in mind. I knew that they can do it. I like, literally wrote the line specifically for them, hearing it within their voice. And we had rehearsals beforehand, so I had already seen ... Like, I know that they could do it.

Jack Conte:
How many rehearsals did you do with the actors?

Elle Mills:
Just one.

Jack Conte:
Just one rehearsal?

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
And you walked through each scene for a couple hours and then you were done?

Elle Mills:
Yes. Yeah.

Jack Conte:
For the whole film.

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
Wow.

Elle Mills:
Which was nice. I don't know, I just feel like they were so professional and so talented and ... I, yeah, I had so much trust in them and faith in them that I wasn't stressed at all. Me on the other hand, if I were on camera, I just get really in my head, and it wouldn't have been the same. I wouldn't have been able to execute the way they did.

Jack Conte:
What is your directing style, like, with actors? How much are you, how do you communicate what you want? How did you communicate what you wanted to those actors? Were you, I mean, some directors for example, literally give actors feedback, like, Steven Spielberg will say like, "Hold this in front of your face, lower it down one inch per second, you know, for like six seconds." Like, he'll be like, very specific with like, types of movements and body motions he wants actors to do. Where do you fall on the how to direct actors spectrum?

Elle Mills:
I like ... I mean, I'm such a fan of actors, so that was like my favorite part, but I just believe in their instincts, and so, to me, like, they know the characters better than I do, and I would prefer whatever they think is best that they do. And I mean, Reply is the only time I ever really worked with actors, was like a three day shoot. But based off that experience, I trust in what they're doing and where they wanna take it.

Jack Conte:
And then how about your direction to the camera, and your director of photography? Yeah. How did you describe what you wanted to ?

Elle Mills:
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I got really lucky, 'cause I feel like I found my like, work soulmate, with my DP. She's the one who helped me with What Happened To Elle Mills, as well. And the music video I did. I think right off the bat we were, I've ... 'Cause I was really scared. I've, again, like with YouTube, it's all me. And so, to like, let go of that is scary. But I had so much trust in her, and I feel like she was able to bring my vision to life better than I had imagined. Again, I have rhythm in my mind. I'd say I'm pretty collaborative in terms of like, I guess I'm more with the camera movement and like, the beats, 'cause I'm thinking about the edit. But in terms of like lighting and setup, like I have a general look, but like, the way I like working with my team is just like, let them do them. Like I want them to feel like I trust them, and like, I wanna hire people who are better at, who know better than I do. Just, as long as we're all on the same page about the overall vision. Yeah.

Jack Conte:
So, the last video you posted to YouTube is What Happened To Elle Mills. In that video, you're basically, I mean at the end you take a vow. Like, it's the close of the second chapter, and the start of this new chapter which is exploring your career as a director writer.

Elle Mills:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
And, can we actually watch a clip of that "What Happened to Elle Mills" video?

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
Let's watch this.

Elle Mills' voice, in video clip:
The cool thing about social media platforms is that it's a raw and direct connection to an audience. It's personal. It makes people feel like they know you. It makes you feel like you're understood. And in a weird way, you become the main character. But there are a lot of layers to the damages making my life so public has had on me. Including a lot of the relationships in my life. These are things I can't undo. Which led me to the biggest breakthrough I had about creating. I don't want my life to be the product anymore. My friend Tomska said this quote once, and it really stuck with me. That not everyone deserves your vulnerability. And as much as I know that now, a lot of my past traumas are still public knowledge, and that's just something I'm gonna continue to navigate and heal from for the rest of my life. That all being said, I am coming to peace with it, and I can look back at it all as just a chapter in my life. But moving forward, I'd rather tell my stories and perspectives in ways that aren't at the expense of my privacy.

Jack Conte:
So what's the next couple years like? What are you dreaming about? What does this mean for Elle fans and like, what's the plan?

Elle Mills:
Yeah, I mean, for the past like year and a bit, I've been working on a feature.

Jack Conte:
Writing a feature.

Elle Mills:
Yeah. Writing a feature, yeah. So hopefully that's done, and I'm trying my best to get that done, 'cause I think that's ... That's really what I wanna do. And I, it's, I'd say Reply would be like ... It definitely sets the tone of like, what it would look like. I think I wanted to expand that idea of like a queer teen romance. Just 'cause that's like, where my heart is at, with, I don't know, like growing up that those are the types of films I loved, and I really wanted to make my own. Like a love letter to my high school self. So that's really what's coming up. I mean, I'm doing some like, directing stuff. So, mostly that, that's where my heart's at. But also, just getting more experience as a director, I guess.

Jack Conte:
Directing stuff like music videos and short films, commercials, stuff like that?

Elle Mills:
Yes.

Jack Conte:
And how are you doing that? How are you getting that work?

Elle Mills:
Well, once I decided I wanted to shift, I got a new manager, and he's been helping me, and like, helping my team kind of guide me in this transition. And so Reply was really ... It was a proof of my work, I guess, and like, my director capabilities. And I think that, and just like, What Happened To Elle Mills, and the music video I did, I think are all proof that I can do it.

Jack Conte:
So people are paying you to direct videos?

Elle Mills:
Yes. Yeah!

Jack Conte:
Fuck yeah!

Elle Mills:
Yeah, I know.

Jack Conte:
That's awesome! That's so cool! So, you've been through so many phases of creativity. And you're entering a new phase right now. What advice would you give to an aspiring young creator who wants to start?

Elle Mills:
I think my biggest thing is be true to yourself and what you wanna see. Like I think you should be the biggest fan of your work. I feel ... I personally think people can feel authenticity, whether that be consciously or subconsciously. And I do believe that the people who have longevity with their career are the ones who are making stuff that's true to them. Because even if, if you start off like, following the trends, you're gonna get, you're gonna set yourself up to be burnt out quicker. And I think actually enjoying what you do, people can feel that. So that would be my first thing. Second thing would be, especially if you are in front of the camera, I think the biggest thing I learned is not everyone deserves your vulnerability. And I feel like it can be easy to fall into this ... People are listening to you, people care, you know? These people that you don't see, and it's like this, I don't know, it's like kind of this loophole of releasing this vulnerability that's like, bottled up inside of you, and it's like an easy trap to fall into. But I think just being careful of what you share of yourself, because things on the internet last forever. And, especially if you're young, I know it might sound crazy, but two years from now, you're gonna be very different, hopefully. And so it's just being cautious of that, and not giving too much of yourself up. Yeah. I'd say those are the two biggest things.

Jack Conte:
Next 10 years, blow your mind. Go exactly as you would've ever hoped. Your wildest dreams come true. What happens over the next 10 years?

Elle Mills:
Oh gosh, I'm making films. People want it. And people ... I would love a stability in that. I think that would be the dream. That I'm making the stuff I want, and people are allowing me to make the stuff that I really wanna make.

Jack Conte:
Awesome. I think that's a great place to end. Thank you Elle for ...

Elle Mills:
Thank you.

Jack Conte:
Being here and doing this with me. Thank you.

Elle Mills:
Thank you so much.

Jack Conte:
I appreciate it.