Drummer and comedian Josh Harmon on magic, music, and managing anxiety

After Josh Harmon quit his job as a writer on "The Today Show," his short-form video series "Rhythms of Comedy," in which he drums along with videos stand-up comedians delivering jokes, rocketed in popularity. With more than four million followers and nearly two billion views on YouTube, Modern Drummer declared him the "most viewed drummer on the internet."

Josh doubled down on his success and switched up his format to recreate sound effects from popular film and television clips. But his quick rise hit a roadblock when he had a panic attack one day while making a video. Here, host Jack Conte and Josh sit down to discuss how Josh has coped with anxiety and the pressure of making a living off creative work, as well as his meticulous approach to making videos.

Transcript:

Josh Harmon:
What really hit was this thing called "Rhythms of Comedy."

[Clip of Mitch Hedberg]
I like an escalator, man, 'cause an escalator could never break. It can only become stairs…

Josh Harmon:
Pretty quickly, the numbers started going up, I started getting a lot of positive feedback, and one day I just went, "Oh my god, all these videos are in English." This is limiting how many people can enjoy them. And so then I sort of brainstorming ways that I could remove language from the videos. What if I could sort of do impressions on the drum set?

[Clip of Josh covering a scene from Ratatouille]

Josh Harmon:
That video has over a billion views.

Jack Conte:
Josh Harmon has one of the most obsessive, detail-fixated, high-craft minds I've ever known.

Josh Harmon:
Jack, there isn't one pixel in any of my videos that I haven't thought about.

Jack Conte:
He quit his job as a writer to make TikTok videos, creating sound effects over famous clips from movies and TV, but using only percussion instruments and his drum kit. And it worked. His videos now have billions of views. He was featured on "The Tonight Show." That was great, buddy! Thank you so much! And "Modern Drummer Magazine" declared him the most famous drummer on the internet.

Josh Harmon:
I was making money, gaining all these followers.

Jack Conte:
But two years in, he basically quit.

Josh Harmon:
I had a panic attack, essentially, was what I had.

Jack Conte:
I'm sitting down with Josh today to talk about his work, what happened, and what he's up to next. Josh, thank you for being here.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
Was it kind of a gradual buildup or was there any moment where you felt like you really hit something?

Josh Harmon:
I think it was the second sound effects video that I ever made, after I had this sort of weird middle-of-the-night epiphany that I needed to remove the words from the videos, I made the "Rhythms of Ratatouille" video, which got seen by every single person on the planet Earth.

Jack Conte:
Was the goal — I mean, like as you were doing that, what were you trying to do? Were you trying to reach more people? Were you trying to make a living — or was it just playful?

Josh Harmon:
It was purely playful, which is why I think those early videos are so much fun, at least for me, to watch, just because there was no agenda. I just genuinely was really curious about this thing and that became contagious where other people — It's such a niche thing, the rhythms of jokes, but thousands of people suddenly became interested because I was so into it.

Jack Conte:
I think that's the first time I discovered you. It was an interview with a guy who was talking about the movies.

[Clip of Harry Styles interview]
You know, my favorite thing about the movie is it feels like a movie. It feels like a real go-to-the-theater film movie, the reason why you go to watch something on the big screen.

Jack Conte:
The reason I was excited about that — 'cause I've seen 1,000 where people play music over something happening — but yours were the best. Your hits were right on every single word. The dynamics of the drums, the sound of the drums, everything felt like it was perfectly, beautifully tuned to match the interview. And what attracted me to it was just the technical excellence of the execution. You just freakin' nailed it. Out of a sea of people who are doing that on the internet, yours are just so good, and I jumped for joy when I saw the first one. Can we watch one of those early clips?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

[Clip of Jerry Seinfeld]
What have I been doing?

Josh Harmon:
This is the very first one I ever did.

[Clip of Jerry Seinfeld]
Everybody says to me, "Hey, you don't do the show anymore. What do you do?" I'll tell you what I do. Nothing.

Jack Conte:
I mean, what's so interesting, and again, maybe we can get a little musical about this too —

Josh Harmon:
Sure, yeah.

Jack Conte:
— Because I think it feels incredibly musical, the way you do it. Obviously, you're not thinking about time signatures. Obviously, you're not even thinking about tempo. There's so many tempo changes. It feels so fluid and yet so natural. I'm curious what you learned about speech and speech patterns. Were there any patterns that you saw developing in how people told jokes and spoke in general?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, what I realized was that in a lot of jokes that I thought were just hilarious, if you were to just read it off paper, read the text, it's completely not the same. It's actually nothing. It may not even be funny. The rhythm makes it funny, and a lot of times, comedians who are mixing up their rhythm, whether they're going to a 16th note and they do sort of a triplet flow type thing. Like Hannibal Buress is really good at this.

[Clip of Hannibal Buress]
I have a situation in my apartment right now. I have a surplus a pickle juice in my apartment. Too much pickle juice, 'cause after the pickles are gone, I don't like throwing out the pickle juice. It just feels wasteful, but lately, I've been dipping my fingers in the pickle juice and then I flick it or my sandwiches for flavor.

Josh Harmon:
It brings the listener into kind of a groove. It's very subtle because it's speech and it's not a song, but if there's also parallel rhythms to call back to an early part of the joke or something like that, that's something I noticed too.

Jack Conte:
Okay when you switched to sound effects and movies, it has the same kind of detail orientation. The sound effects line up perfectly with everything that you're seeing on screen, and somehow you make the drums feel like the sound that we're supposed to hear. Can we watch one of those clips?

[Clip of Josh recreating a scene from the Peanuts]

Jack Conte:
So yeah, I mean, the whipped cream coming out of the can is insane. How do you figure out what to do to make it sound like it looks?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, so there's a lot of trial and error. Now I've made so many of these, my ears are kind of attuned to it. And this is, I think, "Oh, I need kind of a drier sound, maybe more of a metallic kind of thing. It's not quite creamy enough." With this one in particular, I was trying to challenge myself to make as many sounds as I could with just one object, and so I picked a stack of index cards. The first sound I actually had was the chocolate sauce coming out of the can and I knew that could be a wobble type of thing. And then I was like, "Ah, maybe I could kind of do this whole scene just with the cards." And I love the sort of sonic illusion that you're talking about. I spent a lot of time watching magicians on YouTube. I take a lot of inspiration from them and I like incorporating that sort of thing. And actually, a lot of my body language and my posture comes from that. Yeah, so this is from studying some body language stuff of magicians a lot of time. This is trustworthy. This is suspicious. And actually, you can go and watch any of my videos and I have never once crossed my arms.

Jack Conte:
Okay, what else might not people know about that you're doing in these videos?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, here, just pull up a freeze frame of it. So that's a big one, the body language. Also, the clothes that I wear. I wear a lot of red. It's the most attention-grabbing color, and I just sort of noticed that the videos where I wear red were performing slightly better. This could be in my head, but I thought so. Also, the red kind of connects to the red that's of Snoopy's hat, which creates a nice sort of linkage there. I used a purple sheet. This is all kind of color theory stuff.

It's a purple shirt over the drum. Also comes from magic, like a guy at a card table, like really nicely has stuff. That's sort of the inspiration in covering the drum. But also purple and yellow are complimentary colors, so against a drumstick or my hand, purple is gonna create the best contrast to actually see what's going on and make a good visual. Another thing, if we watch at the very, very end of this video in particular, I do this in a lot of them. So I think about the loop, because when I'm making a short-form video, I have to imagine it the way it's gonna be seen. I actually say, "I have to imagine the food on the plate, the way someone's gonna eat it." And so just watch the very, very end of this clip. It's so subtle, but I think it makes a difference. You see that?

Jack Conte:
No, I didn't see it!

Josh Harmon:
Right, yeah.

Jack Conte:
What'd you do?

Josh Harmon:
I move my body forward just a little bit, which brings you into the top of the video again. So my body position is going back to the original position just for a frame, which makes a loop just that much cleaner.

Jack Conte:
And is that something that you consciously think about when you're filming, you know to move back in?

Josh Harmon:
Jack, there isn't one pixel in any of my videos that I haven't thought about.

Jack Conte:
How did you learn all of this? What was driving this sort of obsession with all of those things? 'Cause I think most people probably wouldn't have known any of that care or attention to detail that you're putting in the videos. How did you start to develop that?

Josh Harmon:
I guess to use the food analogy that I was using before, I like the idea that my content would be sort of like fine dining, as opposed to just a plate of food. That's the way I like to make things, just sort of tidy and nice and effortless looking. Also, through trial and error, uploading a video, looking at the analytics, checking the watch time. I remember there was one video where I sort of did that. My body position kind of went into the original body position and the video did really well. So I was like, "Oh, that's the thing. Lemme just remember that. And if after 100 videos you have 100 little tidbits that you can remember, then when those are all acting at the same time, all firing, you're going viral.

Jack Conte:
So you got to a point where you were — How many of these were you making and how long did they take you?

Josh Harmon:
Probably all day, once I had the clip. I should do this, I should release a blooper reel or something, because often, I'll start it and I'll be like, "Ah, I'm not smiling enough, restart. Oh, I crossed my arms by accident, restart."

Jack Conte:
And what are you filming on?

Josh Harmon:
Just my phone. Just this right here. But I have lights, and that black background is just a bed sheet that is duct-taped to the wall, and there's a laundry machine right out outside the frame and an exercise bike on the other side.

Jack Conte:
It looks like you're in this great studio.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, yeah, that's my parents' basement.

Jack Conte:
Okay, so you spend all day on one clip after you've —

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
— chosen the clip.

Josh Harmon:
After I've chosen the clip.

Jack Conte:
And how do you choose clips?

Josh Harmon:
The clips. I look for something that's gonna have a lot of variety of different sounds, something that would be possible for me to do on the drums also, but something that is gonna be sort of attention-grabbing, something where there's a sound that happens in the first second. Also, something where you don't need context to get the clip. Someone doesn't know "The Peanuts," they can still see he's making a sundae and that's it, and you can enjoy it in a self-contained way. This clip also, I have edited in After Effects, so that way at the end, his setup is exactly how it is at the start, so the loop is even cleaner.

Jack Conte:
Okay, so that begs the question then. How much editing do you do in post-production? Do you ever scooch sounds so that they're right on the money?

Josh Harmon:
I did that in one video and —

Jack Conte:
Just one?

Josh Harmon:
Well, here's what happened. A bunch of people were like, "It's not lining up. Something's off here.' And I was like, "Geez, who called the foley police into this comment section? And actually then I was like, "Oh my god, I'm a fraud!" And I got spooked and so now, yeah, I don't. I try to just have it be all raw, and I don't really do a lot of editing, unless it's like a big reverb type of situation, but I try to keep it just as is.

Jack Conte:
And do you do any mixing of the sound files, or is it just straight off the camera?

Josh Harmon:
It's straight. So I have that microphone there. Right into GarageBand, boom. Nothing.

Jack Conte:
GarageBand?

Josh Harmon:
GarageBand, baby!

Jack Conte:
And then you just export?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
And do you do any compression or any EQ?

Josh Harmon:
Nothing, nothing.

Jack Conte:
Nothing?

Josh Harmon:
Nothing, nothing. Raw, raw.

Jack Conte:
Just raw audio?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
Damn.

Josh Harmon:
Which is why I spend a lot of time in the pre-production, making sure the sounds are right, adjusting my technique. "Oh, that was too loud, I have to redo this. Maybe I need a different object." But I like sort of what you see is what you get.

Jack Conte:
When actually was it that you decided to quit your job?

Josh Harmon:
Well, I decided to quit in the summer of 2021 and then I actually quit in November of 2021.

Jack Conte:
So you're making one of these a day.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, or one every couple of days.

Jack Conte:
One every couple of days. You've quit your job.

Josh Harmon:
Mm-hmm.

Jack Conte:
What gave you the confidence that you could quit your job to do this, and what was your job?

Josh Harmon:
I was a writer for "The Today Show" on NBC. Yeah, which is this big swanky job that a lot of people would kill to have, and I was very lucky to have that job, but we would be in these meetings and I just sort of could feel myself distracted, thinking about what video I was gonna make later in the day, and I just felt that pull get stronger and stronger and stronger, but I had no plans to quit until a brand deal came a-knockin' and I was offered for, I think it was like four videos, more than my entire year's salary at the Today Show, so I quit.

Jack Conte:
That's the moment you quit?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah. Well, that's the moment I decided to quit. And then, 'cause I'm such a people pleaser, I stayed on for another three months. I should've just quit. And then when I actually called my boss to quit, I was stammering. I was like, "[stammers] No, it's been so great and I've learned so much from you," and I just said, "Thank you for the opportunity, but I think I wanna maybe pursue some other things." And my boss was like, "Oh, to make videos." And I was like, "Oh, you watch them?" She's like, "Yeah, they're really good. You should do this.

Jack Conte:
How nice!

Josh Harmon:
It was a nice moment, and she and I still keep in touch, Lisa, she's great. But yeah, that's what I did. Also, it was nice, because I would usually finish that job by like 2:00 p.m., 'cause it's a morning show and everything sort of happening in the morning. I would have the afternoon free, and I can't go to sleep at two. That's originally sort of why I started making the videos, another reason, 'cause I had time in the afternoon. Everything kind of lined up.

Jack Conte:
And then you just, from there, quit your job, went full-time into making videos. You had at least a year's salary. How did it go from there? Did you start getting more brand deals? Did you keep the pace of making the videos? Where did that go?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, I kept the pace for a while. I kept the pace for like a year, and I really made a lot of these damn things, which was great. And I was getting the brand deals, and suddenly I had representation, and I was on TV a bunch of times, and people started recognizing me when I would go out, which was cool, but also weird. The brand deals were coming in and I thought, "Oh, this is amazing. I'm set for life. I just do one of these brand deals every month, I can retire in two years."

This turned out not to be the case. As all creators find out, things have huge ebbs and flows. You have moments where you're really hot and then moments where you're not. This is something that I learned the hard way, where a lot of deals started falling through for kind of no reason. It just was difficult to maintain that steady income, which, even though I wasn't making that much money at "The Today Show," I knew I was getting a paycheck. And this is sort of just kinda an artist thing, and creators, a lot of 'em are living email to email.

Jack Conte:
And was there, because you haven't uploaded now in three months, right?

Josh Harmon:
That's correct, yeah.

Jack Conte:
So what happened?

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, well, the current hiatus is different from the previous other three months that I've taken where I haven't uploaded any videos. Well, I was just making a bunch of these things. I was also living at home with my parents. I was making money, I was gaining all these followers, getting all these views, getting all these recognition. So I was kind of richer and richer in all these aspects and poorer and poorer in terms of life experience, 'cause I was spending all day inside in the basement. No social life, just cranking these things out.

And I remember I was making this video where I needed sort of a squishing type of sound, and the way I was gonna get that was by using a banana and I was gonna squish this banana on the snare drum and have it go like that, but I couldn't get it right. This was driving me nuts and I was doing like 30 tries of this and I was going through bananas. 30 tries, 40 tries, 50 different takes or like different ways of smushing this banana with a close mic on the thing. It wasn't coming together, it wasn't sounding right. I was sort of alone in this basement with the laundry machine, and the exercise bike, and then I had banana brownings all over my clothes, all over my drums. The camera was rolling and I just — In that moment, I felt like I had really lost the plot. I was like, "What am I doing? What is going on?"

I had this really weird, almost scary experience from this smushed banana where I kinda just went numb. I sort of just zoned out really hard for I don't know how long. It was scary. I was like — I had a panic attack, essentially, was what I had as a result. And I think it was because I was just going so tunnel-vision and making these videos and I kind of lost the initial playfulness of it when I started making the videos. It was just because I genuinely love doing it. And the videos I do — they're great. I mean, they're happy little pieces of joy that you get on your feed and it makes you feel nice — and that's great, but as soon as this was like, "This is how I'm making my money, this is my livelihood, there's pressure on this. The videos are averaging 20 million views each. I have to keep that up, I have to one-up myself every single time." And I was fully alone doing it. The pressure was just immense, and then I ended up with all this — the banana was just the trigger that opened the floodgates for me to actually process what was going on.

Jack Conte:
Can you take us back to that actual take 53 or whatever? Did you stop trying to get it or did you succeed in getting the squished sound? I'm curious.

Josh Harmon:
I stopped.

Jack Conte:
You stopped?

Josh Harmon:
I stopped.

Jack Conte:
And then right after you stopped, or at least at some point you said you basically had a panic attack. If you're comfortable, was it actually a panic attack? Was it a moment that evening? Was it the next day? Was there actually a moment where you felt-

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, I couldn't sleep. I had cold sweats that night. I didn't really know what was going on. And this is actually the moment that I started looking for a therapist online, which I'd never been to therapy before, and I found this guy and started talking to him, and that was really great, and he helped me realize that that was a panic attack. I have said this before in other interviews. If you're a creator, you should have a therapist. It's so important. I've gained so much out of it, just learning about myself and building up the tools to deal with that kind of thing. The issue, at least at the outset, was at those sort of moments of extreme anxiety did not go away and it started to be where now every time I sat down at the kit to make a video, I would have one.

Jack Conte:
So the panic got associated with the creation of the videos.

Josh Harmon:
Yes, and also with posting. So sometimes I would push through, make the video, cheery smile, happy Josh, but also really feeling it, and then I was like, "Okay, well, at least I got through that." And then when I would post, I would have another second wave. And this was happening over and over again, and I was like, "I gotta stop, gotta take a breather." So I did. Took a hiatus, so I took two months off and I traveled to Europe, and it was great, and I felt amazing. I was like, "Oh my god, I'm fine. I'm traveling and this is wonderful. I'm eating a croissant and I was just having a great time." I didn't think about it at all and I was like, "I'm healed! I just needed a break, wow." And I get home from that trip, go right back into the basement, make another video, panic.

Jack Conte:
After two months of nothing.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, yeah. So I had not gotten to the root of it, which is just that I had become sort of removed from that initial spark of joy that was drawing me to create, like that pull that I felt in those "Today Show" meetings where I was like, "Oh my god, I just cannot wait to go down into the basement and make something. Oh my god, I'm so excited. I don't even know what I'm gonna make. I'm just so excited to do something!" Suddenly I felt like I had to do it and there was so much pressure, there were so many eyeballs. Oh my god. And that then encouraged me to take another break, but that break was when I went to New Orleans.

Jack Conte:
So how long after you got back from Europe and had that second wave of panic attacks and you realized you hadn't actually solved the root cause, how long before then you did another break and went to New Orleans?

Josh Harmon:
It was about a month and a half of cranking out more videos. The problem also was that every single person in my life was saying, "Just keep doing it. This is working. You're getting millions and millions of views, tens of millions of views on every single one. This is your ticket, this is your moment. Don't blow it." That is not helpful.

Jack Conte:
What gave you the confidence to ignore the advice of everyone around you?

Josh Harmon:
I don't think I had the confidence to ignore it. I just felt like I couldn't listen to it because I was not capable of it, which, you know, same result. Yeah, I think it was just, you know, how your life feels is more important than how it looks, and my life did not feel good at all. I mean, to the outside observer, all these followers, a blue check mark, millions of likes on every video, oh my god! But I was just sad and not fulfilled by the work anymore and I just needed to switch it up. I knew this. I had a feeling, a similar sort of pull as like, but being pulled to something else, something deeper.

Jack Conte:
So all in all, before that second wave, it was about two and a half years that you were cranking these out.

Josh Harmon:
Two years, yeah.

Jack Conte:
Two years, and at that point, you went to New Orleans. Why? Why New Orleans? Where did that pull come from? What was the gravity that took you there?

Josh Harmon:
I went to New Orleans because, well, one thing that really surprised me about, I guess, becoming a professional drummer was how little I was playing the drums. I initially started the pages because I just love to play the drums, and it's my fun thing, and I've done it since I was a baby, and it's always been my release and how I express myself. Tough day at work? Go play it out on the drums. Hanging with some friends? Let's jam, drum. But when suddenly I'm spending eight hours a day behind the kit, smushing pencils around, the last thing I wanna do is play more drums after that to unwind. And so I felt very disconnected from the love of my life. And New Orleans is a drummer city. I just know that the best drummers in the world, I think, live in New Orleans and I wanted to reconnect with music, reconnect with playing with other people, and that's why I picked it.

Jack Conte:
So much about that really resonates with me. One thing I've found is if the core thing that you're doing isn't right, taking a break doesn't make the burnout go away. You can take a break and come back and feel just as sad within a day.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, yeah.

Jack Conte:
It's not about needing a break. It's about something about this isn't right and I need to solve some other problems.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
And then the other thing that just really connects with me is the idea of making music with others. For a very long time, Pomplamoose was just me and Nataly, and then somewhere around 2017 or 2018, we started working with a lot of people. And not that Nataly and I don't love each other deeply, it's just that the joy of making music in a studio with a band and joking with the band and hanging with the band and having pizza afterwards — it's so magical.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
And sounds like that's one of the main goals of going to New Orleans. Meeting that community, starting to work with those people, playing drums more, as a professional drummer.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
How did you kind of get into the scene and start doing all that? Because it sounds like you didn't really — It's not like you were walking into a bunch of ties and a network that you already had. You just showed up in a city.

Josh Harmon:
I knew zero people, which is one of the craziest things I've ever done, honestly. Just go to a new city with no connections, not knowing a single person. I just rented a house and went. The first night that I was there, I felt that old familiar feeling, panic bubbling up, because the initial touchdown in New Orleans was euphoric. I was like, "Ah, yes. I left home, I'm flying now. I'm in a new place, restart." But then the sun goes down and I've got no one to eat dinner with. I don't even know where to eat dinner. And I'm just like, "Oh my god, I really know zero people here." And I had that strong desire to stay and isolate. I forced myself to go out and I went into the first jazz club I saw. The drummer who was playing, as soon as I walked in, recognizes me and goes, "Oh my god, you're Josh Harmon. I love your videos. Come and sit in." And I did, and then it was great. And the guy who was leading the band was like, "Oh my god, who are you?" And I said, "I'm Josh, I just got here." He was like, "Are you free Friday? And I said, "Yeah." And he said, "You're hired."

Jack Conte:
Hired for what?

Josh Harmon:
To play the gig, he needed a drummer, and it just went from there. And so then I did that Friday gig and someone was in the audience there who heard me and was like, "Oh my god, are you free Tuesday? I need a sub." "Yeah, I am. I'm free 24/7." And it just snowballed from there until I was performing every night.

Jack Conte:
Every night?

Josh Harmon:
Basically every night I had something to do, either sitting in or playing, subbing for someone. And then I got a regular Friday gig very, very quickly. In New Orleans also, there's just so much music. There's so many gigs and so many people working all the time in music. And so if you can hang, it's possible to do.

Jack Conte:
And you're not doing brand deals anymore?

Josh Harmon:
Well, I'm not doing anything anymore.

Jack Conte:
Well, you are now.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, right, yeah.

Jack Conte:
You're playing gigs.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah, yeah, I'm playing these gigs, but nothing public-facing on the internet.

Jack Conte:
No videos.

Josh Harmon:
No videos at all. I used to, when I would have a gig sometimes, would bring my phone and my tripod and stream it on TikTok, and then in the set break I'd be checking like, "Oh, how many people are watching? What do they think?" I stopped all that. I stopped filming or even like — I stopped even, which was the best, I stopped waking up and being like, "Oh, what video am I gonna make today?" And just started thinking, "Oh, what am I gonna do today?" Which was nice for a time. It's getting to the point now where it's like, I should probably go back to making something. But now, having had this great New Orleans experience, I feel like whatever I decide to make next, they'll have a bit more heart in it. And of course, when I started making these videos, it really did have the heart in it, and I still love them. I still am very proud of them, but it's time for something new.

Jack Conte:
There's something about interactions online these days that kind of remove the humanity from artistry. It's no surprise to me that those in-person moments have such an effect on us, 'cause I think we spend so much time staring at these screens, looking at these red arrows up or down, looking at numbers moving in one direction or another, and forgetting about the spirit of it, the heart of it. Last question for you.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
What is the future for you now? You've had this experience moving to a new city, finding a community, playing with people you respect, getting out there. It sounds like now you're starting to feel a little bit of a pull to make things —

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
— Posting them online. What is the future for you? Yeah, how are you even thinking about it? Yeah, where's it starting?

Josh Harmon:
The future, I guess, is starting with actually just forgiving myself, 'cause I used to beat — on a couple of these breaks I've taken, I would really be beating myself up. I'd be like, "I should be working now, I should be making video. I'm blowing it like everyone has told me not to do." And now I'm like, "Screw that. I'm not blowing it. I'm making it, you know? I'm on my own journey. It's fine, this is part of it. And I think the future is just letting myself feel that pull again and letting it drag me to something new. I've been writing original tunes, actually, Jack.

Jack Conte:
Amazing.

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
Well, I'm sure we'll be hearing those soon. Thank you so much for doing this. So good to see you in person and to spend some time —

Josh Harmon:
Yeah.

Jack Conte:
— with you, man.

Josh Harmon:
I loved it, thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah.

Jack Conte:
Yeah.